Welcome to episode 37 of Lost in Immersion, your weekly 45-minute stream about innovation. As VR and AR veterans, we will discuss the latest news of the immersive industry. Seb is not with us today, he will be back next week, hopefully for our caution-splatting battle, and to see who will be the winner of it, not this week, but next week, hopefully. So, good morning, good evening, Fabien, and if you want to start, please. Hello, hello, yeah. Okay, so this week we will talk about a new device that was released a few days ago, well, it was announced a few days ago, and the others will start pretty soon. It's the Human AI Pin, how they call it. So, it's a very small device that you can pin on your clothes, and the vocation is for it to be always on, kind of like a replacement for the smartphone, but that will be always on and always kind of like listening to your voice commands, and that you can touch to do some actions, and quite actually a lot of things. So, to be honest, I'm a bit skeptic, yeah, about everything that is announced as the feature. So, there is a projector in it, so that can project information on the hand, and there is also a depth camera on it, so that can analyze the hand gesture, so pinch and roll and this kind of stuff. Let's go on, so there is a touchscreen on the device itself as well. So, you know, swipe, touch, and so on. As the title of the device says, it's an AI-driven device, so you can talk to it, you can ask for instructions about your schedule or your music or your messages, you can ask it to prepare a playlist for you or to summarize the meetings that you will have that day, for example. So, hopefully, it works as well as advertised. Okay, so this is what I've just talked about that you can see here. So, you can see the results in the projection that is made in the hand. So, obviously, they know that one of the main concerns that people will have when seeing this kind of device is privacy. So, a good, good part of their website and their communication is actually about privacy. So, they explain that you can choose who can reach out to you. Oh, by the way, I didn't mention it, but there is a cellular connection in the device, so it's really like a small smartphone. So, yeah, this is like similar to the priority feature that they are on smartphone. This I mentioned about summarize something with AI. So, it seemed like we had like Hello Siri on iOS. Here, it's Catch Me Up for human. Okay, Play East I mentioned about. Let's see. There is something else. So, the camera also seems to include image recognition. So, you can ask for show something to the camera and ask information about it. So, here they give an example about this fruit. You can ask him what's nutrition, how much sugar is there in it. So, again, it seems to be amazing. I'm really curious to see the first reviews to know if it actually works as good as advertised. You can write messages, obviously. Translate, translation. And picture as well, because there is a camera. So, yeah, here is a very new type of device, kind of an always on AI assistant slash smartphone that is always connected. Again, I'm really curious to know a few things. So, first, if the AI works as good as advertised, then if the battery can hold a charge for like a complete full day. Because on so many features, like camera, microphone, processing, that's a lot to be able to rendering a day. And it's actually a small form factor. So, yeah, that's the two main things that I will look at for the first reviews. And also, you know, like the adoption. Is the public really ready for this kind of device? Or will it be like a slow adoption that we will see over the years? That would be interesting to look at. And just for history, let me share something else. So, this is back in 2014, if I'm correct. 2009. 2009, sorry. Yeah. Let's have a look at this. So, this is a very similar, I will skip ahead. So, very similar intention in the technology. So, you will have like using the hands and a projector that will be held on your body. And you could, you know, type. Type things with hand recognition. So, a full complete interaction. Exactly the same kind of feature where you can learn about the product. So, yeah, it's very interesting to see that a long time ago this kind of user experience was already thought about. But, yeah, it's finally coming up. And just to end on this, about the pricing. So, it starts at $700. And because there is a cell phone feature. So, I think it's $24 or something for the monthly subscription. Yeah. So, that's it. Very interesting, small, new device. And I'm very curious to hear what you have to say about it. Yeah, you're right. A lot of questions. I have questions, too, about this. But first of all, I'm just to answer your question about the adoption. I have a colleague that is actually using ChatGPT with his smartphone in his front pocket. And most of the day he's talking to himself. And, in fact, he's using some speech to text and text to speech in his headphones. So, that he can have a complete conversation with ChatGPT along the day. So, when he found out this announcement, he was crazy. Because it absolutely answered to his need right now of having this AI assistant. His daily AI assistant. So, very funny to see that up there in the world some people are waiting for these kind of devices. So, yeah, they are clearly answering some requests here. I'm not sure it's a majority of people. Because, to be honest, I guess it's just one third of the global population that knows about AI. And less than 10% that can access it freely or without any too much trouble. So, it's a very small niche, actually, for this kind of user. Which, I guess, explains the price as well of the device. But this is the first thing I would like to bring to the table. Then, when we are talking about projection, we know that it's a very tricky. Also, it's a great technology, but it's also very tricky to make it work. Especially in broad daylight. We expect this kind of device to work outside. So, I don't know what kind of projectors they are intending to use. Because when you are projecting in the light, you need a very strong projection power. If you want to be able to see something. Especially if your projection is in your hand for interface purposes. So, I'm a bit skeptic about this. Because we've seen those kind of announcements of very high-tech devices. Like watches and necklaces. That were supposedly able to project in daylight. But none of these devices has never been released. Because mostly they were just scams. And sometimes people just couldn't figure out the technology to do so. I guess they should be using some laser projector. But the form factor seems to be very small for them to do so. So, I'm not quite sure how those technologies can align and propose this kind of feature. So, a very big question mark on this. And then what I found quite unfortunate. Is that this manufacturer is trying to sell the hardware and the AI software as well. Because we know that when a company is trying to do both. It never ends very well for them. Especially when you have big giant tech like OpenAI in front of you. With a very complete and powerful AI in front of them. And usually when a small company. I don't know what size is this company. But we know that right now when people are used to use ChatGPT. And they are switching to another AI. Which is not as evolved as the ChatGPT for example. We can see this with Bard for example. Or the AI from Facebook as well. People are immediately finding out that it's not powerful enough. And they can't do what they were supposed to do. What they were used to with OpenAI. And they just simply lose interest. So, if they are providing the AI with this. It should be very, very complete. So, I see that on your website. So, maybe they have partnership apparently. Which would be the best way of doing this I guess with OpenAI. So, if you can plug in your ChatGPT subscription. And get the AI from there. I guess this is the best. So, maybe you've just answered my question. And finally, you've shown us that at some point. Somebody already developed a product that looks like this concept. The projector and necklace. And the ability to track and take pictures and so on. So, my question is. Maybe there is a patent on this at some point. So, maybe we'll see a patent war on this. To know if they infringe it or not. So, very interesting to follow this piece of hardware. To see what it will become in the upcoming months. Yeah. It's a very interesting new device. Something I didn't mention. I'm sure that it shows through their website. It's very Apple-like in the design. And it's actually founded by two ex-Apple employees. So, makes sense. The founder seems to have worked on the design of the iPod, iPhone, iPad. So, yeah. It looks very... It could have been done by Apple. And actually, maybe someday Apple will, I don't know. Release their iPin. I don't know. From what we've discussed, I guess this kind of AI assistant would be integrated in the Apple Vision Pro. I guess this was their intent. Maybe they'll have a smaller version. Yeah. So, yeah. Very interesting. I think it goes live in a couple of days. So, I don't know when the orders will be shipped. But I'm really curious to see what it looks like. And how people actually can use it. And, yeah. That's it, I think. Okay. So, here we are. So, for my part, again, I guess we could talk about some tech comeback. But Apple just announced that you would be able to record 3D spatial video to watch in Apple Vision Pro. So, they are continuing to create new tools for you to have this kind of... I would call it the volumetric world. When everything should be in 3D. So, we've talked about their capability to 3D scans. And create 3D assets for you to import everywhere. And within this kind of rendering, when they announced the Apple Vision Pro, where you could... Relieve, maybe? This is a good word. But to watch your 3D memories that you've taken with the Apple Vision Pro. And at that time, people were kind of a bit shocked. Because they were seeing somebody wearing an... Yeah. Wearing an headset at a birthday party. And a lot of people found it kind of weird. Why would you wear this kind of device when you're with your family and getting... You're not in the moment. But we know that people are associating VR headsets with VR headsets. And this one is different. Because you are seeing the real world through the cameras. But yeah. So, this use case with the headset on recording 3D memories is not maybe the best one. But by providing this new update, this new capability for your phones to do so. Maybe it will ease the transition between what we are used to do. And what will be the future with us wearing these headsets on a daily basis. So, very interesting to see that this is a full comeback of 3D stereoscopic. And just as you did, I have some old memories to show you. And this is the kind of phone that we could buy in 2011. So, there were LG, HTC, Nokia as well. And a lot of big manufacturers, cell phone manufacturers that were providing these 3D phones. So, you were able to capture and to view 3D content on your phones. And obviously, it didn't work out as well as the 3D content on TV. Because the rendering was not as good. And maybe people were not ready yet. But we can see that Apple just announced a 10 year plus technology. And there is nothing new here. It's just that maybe the timing was wrong. Quite the same with VR and a lot of innovative technology. The timing is the key. And so, maybe you can take your 3D Blu-ray and 3D glasses and projectors back. Because there will be new content and new way of visualizing this. So, very interesting. And just I had just one concern is about if you can see the... Here, if we come back to the iPhone special video captors. I don't know if this is the real captor that they will be using. But I find the distance between the two captors very, very small. Because we know that when you are capturing in 3D, in stereoscopic, you would like to have, likely, the separation between your eyes. So, basically, it's 6.5 centimeters at best. We know that the previous phones were not using this. But the distance between the lenses were bigger than it is right now on the iPhone. So, I don't know how they can do this and what the quality of their 3D rendering is. Because there is a lot of software correction and modification to do so. But at some point, you can't create volume that much. So, very intrigued to see how it will be working and what kind of result we can have. And if the 3D is real, meaning that you have this required distance between your captors to see a real good 3D stereoscopic rendering. So, what are your thoughts about this? Yeah, so, let's see. In no specific order, the first comment that I have is it seems like the video codec or format that they are using is actually published by Apple. So, that would mean, in theory, that the video, the file could be played on other devices than the Apple Vision Pro. So, I mean, that's good. Because, like, having an iPhone plus the Apple Vision Pro, that's kind of a costly setup to just watch a 3D video. And then the other comment that I have about actually what you just mentioned, I wonder if in all the videos that I've seen of special 3D videos playing in the Apple Vision Pro simulator or the marketing videos from Apple, the movements are very small. It seems like it's just a small floating movement. And I wonder if, yeah, because the distance between the two lenses is so small, if you start going really to the sides or really out of the position that was captured, it kind of gets distortions or loss of quality. And, yeah, and finally, as you mentioned, timing, who is doing it, Apple is always, like, being very good at pushing new technologies and how the consumers are already honored for that. That's a lot of things to consider. Yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I was just sharing this as well, which was, to my knowledge, the best device to do 3D rendering and 3D capture with. It was Project Tango by Google. And you can see the distance between the captures is way higher than it is on the phone. So, yeah, we'll see what they will be doing with this. And very interesting to see that all this old spatial computing theme is already, is all built by Apple right now. And they are adding new feature from month to month. And we'll see what they'll be doing with this. Just as a final just topic, there were social VR survey that had been done about the habits of VR user. And I found it quite interesting. There are three main themes about this. The first one is about romance. And apparently 41% of the person that answered this survey, they found love in VR. So it seems that apparently all the physical part of a relationship is not that important for this kind of user. And they are simply have this virtual distant relationship. But they are expressing those loving feelings. So very interesting to see that you can fall in love in VR. And that it's nearly half the users that have done that. So I guess the survey was answered mainly by people that are using VR chat right now. Because I can't see any other platform where you could do this kind of meeting and relationship. So we maybe could sum up that maybe half of the VR chat user can fall in love. I don't know if it's a shortcut. So very interesting to see that. The second point is about economy. And all VR users are paying for their content. So there is something there. And about 20% of them is spending more than $700 every year. Each year. So there also there is a market, obviously. And finally, about the community. The three most popular types of community were fashion, music, and casual drinking party. So basically VR chat, Roblox, and so on. And we've seen that the fashion week did very good this year. So apparently it's a community that for my part I didn't think about. As one of the biggest ones. But apparently it's something that is going on here right now in the VR world. So what are your thoughts about this? It's a very interesting survey. For the fashion, yeah, I think, well, in hindsight, it kind of makes sense. Fashion went into the hype of NFTs and Web3. And then kind of grew on the Roblox and other platforms. And it makes sense because there are a lot of avatars. And the generation that is using these platforms, they want to express themselves. And the best way to do it is through the fashion on the avatar. So it was not easy to predict, but looking back at it right now, it makes sense. And about finding love on VR chat, yeah, it's very interesting. It's a good story. There was a film that was recorded fully in VR chat that was called We Met in VR or something like that. That told the story of two real people meeting in VR chat and finding love. So, yeah, I think that's a note of optimism on positivity. Yeah, that's good. I don't know. They don't say if the relationships are lasting. They just found love. I don't know if it lasts or not. It's really cool. And yeah, the point that you mentioned about economy is also very important. Like the user that are there have the financial, I mean, they are investing the financial means for this entertainment. Yeah, it really recalls me about the discussion we had about this new way of consuming where, well, basically everything is free, but you can pay for what you like. And especially in VR chat with Patreon on all this sharing platform where you can give money willingly, but it's a new way of consuming your entertainment. So very, very interesting that it works at some point. So maybe we'd have to reconsider this as a global new way of doing business. So very, very interesting to see that as well. But we already knew that right now the VR community is very willing to buy high end products if it meets their needs. So once again, maybe for the actual community, I mean, willing to have the cheapest VR headsets or AR headsets is not the best way of doing so. And maybe Apple, once again, not that far from a current reality. And I'm not sure that the $3,500-ish for the Apple Vision Pro is the right price, but when they will be releasing it between the $1,500 and $2,200 price tag, I guess they will be just having a huge success because at this price tag, the big majority of the VR community is ready to buy this kind of device. Because we are seeing people buying the Oculus Pro because there was the eye tracking in it and the price tag were around this $1,500. So we can see there are clients for this kind of devices, eye tracing devices. Yeah. And speaking of the next Apple device, there are rumors right now that Sate's Project Alaska, I think, if I'm correct, and that would be released in early 2026, maybe end of 2025. So still far away. Other companies have time to adjust. Okay. Great. So anything more to add? No. I think that's it. Yeah. Okay. So it's a wrap up for today. So next week, Sate will be back and maybe the caution battle will be on. So keep you posted.

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Podcast hosted by Guillaume Brincin, Fabien Le Guillarm, and Sébastien Spas.
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