Welcome to episode 44 of Loft in Immersion, your weekly 45-minute stream about innovation. As VR and AR veterans, we will discuss the latest news of the immersive industry. So, hello guys, and we'll start at once with Fabien, please. Hello, thanks. So, last Friday was the day that Apple Vision Pro was open to orders. We've released the delivery in a couple of weeks. So, of course, there are a lot of news about Vision Pro, and Apple also released a lot of videos. And the one that we are currently looking at right now is quite interesting, is a description and a walkthrough of all the main features of the Vision Pro. Well, more correctly, the features that Apple wants to promote on the Apple Vision Pro. And we are seeing this through the eyes of someone that supposedly is using the Vision Pro for the first time. So, it's a marketing video, you know, but anyway, this is the scenario. And so, we can see the first feature that is highlighted is how the UI works. So, eye gaze and a pinch on the fingers is how the selection of an icon or a menu item is working. This is the first thing that they are going through. And then, the first feature that we are looking at is pictures. So, pictures, how to look at pictures, and how to increase the size of the picture to make it big, and how to look at panoramas. So, you can see that there is a special feature for the panoramas that you can open it almost 360. And let's see where it is. So, it's the video. Okay, the panorama here. So, you can open it up, the background dims, and you can see your panorama life size, as they say. And so, then, of course, the next feature that we are looking at is special videos. So, this is how they are showcasing it, a video that is recorded with an iPhone or the Vision Pro. As you can see, with small movements of the head, he says that he can really see the depth of the videos like this. So, this was for pictures and videos, and we are also seeing how watching movies will look like. So, it seems like you can put your screen as big as you want, as expected, and have a really immersive movie experience in the Vision Pro. Next, they switched to work. So, we are seeing a pretty standard desktop. Something that was really interesting to me is the UI that we are seeing here. It's the same UI as we have on desktop. There is nothing like special, it's quote-unquote just Windows in space. The mailbox UI is the same as the one that we have on Mac Safari, the same as well. Then, they moved to FaceTime video call. So, this is pretty standard, nothing fancy expected. And then, they also moved to something that will be very interesting to test, actually, is a call with someone who is also wearing an Apple Vision Pro. And this is where we see that avatar that they are reconstructing here. What is interesting is we are not seeing him in that video. So, I don't know. I'm really looking forward to see the quality of this in the actual device. And then, back to a few other features. You can immerse yourself in an environment, but still, you are able to see the other people in the room like this, which is interesting. They showcase how mirroring through a Mac will work. So, you can display the screen of your Mac on a huge screen in front of you. And finally, at the end, just a couple of immersive experiences. So, one about mindfulness. So, I think it's a breathing exercise, if I'm correct, using, yeah, as you can see here, like a really immersive experience around the user. And showcasing hand tracking with a butterfly that lands on the finger and the classic dinosaur that runs over in an immersive experience. So, here you go. I have a lot to say about it, but I will first hand it over to you guys to have your impressions. I think it's a very, very interesting video. So, Seb? Yes. Yeah, I watched the video also, and yeah, it was very interesting. Like you said, something that they skip at the beginning, they do a big statement saying that it's the first time he's wearing the headset. But I love that. You need to do the configuration, have it adjusted to you. You need to scan your eyes and, yeah, sync it maybe with your phone or with your Mac. And all the steps are skipped away to make it smooth and easy to wear and ready to do the experiences as soon as you have the headset on. But anyway, that's a promotional video. So, yeah, I guess it would have made a very long video if they would have added that. But at least precising this at the beginning of the video could be more fair. Like, yeah, the lady is saying that she's seeing the eyes of the user through the headset. This can only be done if he scans his face before with the headset. Yeah, like about there, yeah, in the video. But, yeah, it's nice to see it in action. Really, it seems really impressive, the avatar that are generated seems to be really nice. The best part for me is the end of the video where we start to see 3D objects coming out of a 2D element or the butterfly coming on the finger of the user. And then, yeah, all the interaction seems to be quite easy to handle. Like when you click with your mouse, you always look at your cursor when you click on it. So doing the same thing with your eyes and clicking with your finger and having your finger close to your body so you don't have to put them in front of you seems to be a very nice interaction. What they don't show is how sticky can things be in your place. If you can put really something on your one wall, go on the other side of your place in your living room or somewhere else in your bedroom and add some other stuff and see them stick and remain there. Right now, they don't show this functionality, so I guess we'll have to try this ourselves as soon as we can. But, yeah, overall, that's a very nice demo. What do you think, Gil? Yeah, lots of things to say. So just to continue your thoughts about the sticky things in your environment, I don't know if you saw that, but 90% of the time, the user is seated. And most of the time, the headset is plugged in as well. So you can directly see that you're not supposed to move that much with the headset as Apple wants you to. Because I understand this video as the guideline how to use the headset, the best way of using it. So you should be seated with your headset plugged in. About the first use case, we know now that the demonstration in an Apple Store or the Apple Vision Pro would take between 20 and 30 minutes. So you can here see that it's not as easy as they are trying to tell us to put it on and just discover how it works. You have to have help and a guide for your first use. The other thing I would like to share with you guys is that there is no new application. No new, like the famous killer app that would put everyone out of their chair and see, wow, I really need this device. It's some classic stuff right now. Basically, it's doing what, despite the video conference, the pictures, watching movies, even working on a virtual environment. This is what we call the assisted glasses or smart glasses are doing right now. So not much differentiation about what Apple can do. What's interesting, well, they are doing the same as Meta and others, but there is absolutely no distortion or rounded effect on what they are showcasing at the user view. So very interesting to see that for them, it should be a very clear, very rectangular view. So I hope this won't be misleading the future customer about this. Yeah, this is mostly what I wanted to say, but the main thing that is bothering me is that we didn't see anything new. Something that is overwhelming or I don't know, something that could say, oh, I should have pre-ordered the Apple Adventure Pro because now it's sold out. So you don't have the choice, but yeah, right now I don't regret not having pre-ordered this headset. I just want to wait more to see what the final render or display is in this headset. Yeah, so I, what you said is like, we are not seeing anything new and what I think is that's actually the point. What I think the strategy from Apple is, is they want to, they are not targeting the hardcore VR users, they are targeting everybody. So they want to showcase the everyday use that everybody's already doing with the Apple products and just transpose them during just the first small step, transporting them into a special context. So, you know, videos, pictures, panoramas, movies, email, calling, and just at the end, just a few immersive experiences. So I think this is their strategy to onboard as much people as possible. Just because I showed this video to normal people, non-specialist people, and they are not seeing the point of this headset. Yeah, of course I can see pictures, I can see movies, but what's the point in paying $4,000 for that? So it's really, as you're saying, they are really targeting the hardcore Apple fan here. But yeah, with 70,000 units, of course, it's a very small fan base, but to the, I guess, to the mainstream population, it doesn't make sense. It's like another gadget, a very expensive gadget at this point. Yeah, yeah, of course, for now, I agree for now, but as the next devices will be released, they will be less expensive and slowly the usage will, I think, become familiar. So I don't know, we can make predictions on that and see how it goes. But yeah, that would be my prediction. On my side, I see that's the same move as the iPhone. There was kind of smartphone on the market already available, but with lower performances, lower functionality, less easy interaction with the smartphone that was existing before. And then when they released the iPhone, it changed completely the market. And the price was huge and people were saying the same thing. I don't need this. And only the Apple fans were buying that. And here, I think it's the same idea with the new interaction that they only want doing that for interacting and keeping their environment the same. I think like Fabien said, it's to re-target those early adopters, Apple fans that would make applications for the device and then for the next version of the headset. Will showcase to others what they have done and make other early adopters and then the market will grow bigger, I think. So I think that their strategy is the same here. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see if it works at this price because compared to the iPhone, there is a huge gap in terms of pricing for this device. Yeah, there are a lot of comparisons made to the original Macintosh, which is, I think, almost 40 years ago, day to day, which was at this kind of similar price. So, yeah. Right. Seb, it's your turn. Yeah, on my side, I wanted to share also a video of Apple that they released showcasing how they manufactured the headset. So it's interesting to see that they start communicating this way, showcasing. Yeah, I don't think they are showcasing any industrial secrets there because it's mainly, yeah, it's industrial factoring. The main secrets are in their CPU video. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's also interesting that that reminds me that on the previous video, we are not seeing the head strap that is also delivered with the headset. So, yeah, but seeing how the front. All right. Another subject was this Disney holo tile that they revealed, showcasing that they can have two users walking almost naturally on the floor. And they can do interaction with the screen. So two users can feel like they're walking in the same environment, but not in the same place. For me, it's still a bit of a gadget because you see that the people are not walking completely naturally. They're always moved away and re-centered on the floor. So it seems interesting. It's a nice move forward, but not the perfect system. Although what is really different from what I've seen so far is the fact that they can have many floors, a big floor with many people on it, walking on it or move objects directly. Like this Star Wars effect is quite nice. So I don't know if you saw that, if you have any feedback on it. Of course, we saw that it's everywhere in LinkedIn and any tech website. I guess we talked about it and we said that they are very efficient in their communication. Disney Research is known for their, they are doing lots of secret stuff. And when it comes out, it's always very nice things to discover. Just my first impression when I saw this video, it was, wow, they created a mat that can do the treadmill. And after a few seconds, I realized that it's a huge platform, like a traditional treadmill. So yeah, the effect was very impressive at first and then, oh yeah, well, it's a classical treadmill. I think at some point we can hear the sound and it's not that quiet because it's lots of motors, of course. But yeah, the communication part is very efficient. The system seems to be interesting. It's a variation of the famous roll-up. There's lots of roll that is used in the army. It's usually an hexagon or octagon and people can move around. So yeah, it's a nice thing to see that treadmills are trending. But yeah, I don't know what Disney Research can do with this. Are they willing to integrate this in their theme park at some point? Because we know that they are doing some immersive researches. But I don't know why they are financing this kind of researches. I don't know what their point is, but maybe you have more idea about this. Yeah, so I had the same back-to-reality impression as you had. It's like, wow, they have one centimeter high thing that was like, how can they do that? But no, yeah, there is a huge, probably a huge part below that, that isn't doing everything. And yeah, as you said, Seb, you can see when they are walking, they are still walking very carefully. But still, it's pretty nice and good looking. One thing, and I saw someone saying that on LinkedIn, I forgot who. So, sorry about that, but the comment was that Disney Research, they usually don't sell their products. So, that person was saying that it's unlikely that it will hit the mass market. And as you said, Guillaume, maybe it will hit the Disney parks, the theme park in attractions. But it's unlikely that it will be for sale. So, I don't know, we'll see. Yeah, so the same news. And it's interesting to see also that they use Azure Kinect to track the user and center it on the floor. They're using the Microsoft tracking to do that. That's interesting to see. And yeah, I think also that will be for their theme park. It's a research for their theme park. All of what they do are never released on the public market. It's only for doing attractions that people cannot see anywhere else than in their theme park. But yeah, we'll see. Talking about theme park. I saw that new video of the new Universal Studios Jurassic Park attraction where they synced a huge 3D screen. It's not 3D screen, it's 2D screen, but synced with the boat position. So, it looks like 3D. And they synced that with a real water projection and stuff like that. So, yeah, the attraction must be amazing to look at. And yeah, interesting way of showcasing some prehistoric animals. Do you know in which park it is? It is in Orlando or Los Angeles? I think it's in Japan, but I will check it out. I will let you know. I don't know what it is. I saw the video and thought it was worth sharing. Yeah, some good parallax. Yeah, and the water effects are quite nice too because they are really coming close to the screen. It really looks like there is something broken and there is really water behind the glass, which is only a screen. So, yeah. What is your thought Fab? Yeah, I will check if it's in Osaka next time. I will have a look. Yeah, we saw last year or two years ago was a lot of 3D screens outside in the streets. So, yeah, parallax. And it's interesting to see how it's used now in this kind of situation. It's really well done, yeah. Yeah, the synchronization with even this effect, this particular effect when there is a wave coming inside. Yeah, the fact that it syncs with the real effect must be really impressive. I guess the sound effect also must be really nicely done in this environment. So, I would love to check it out. And my last subject is about this neural UV mapping that allows to re-texture and change the material of a Gaussian splatting model. So, we were wondering a couple of months ago how could we use that to change the texture, change the color of an object. And now the technology is coming and it starts to be usable. So, here at the end of the video they are showcasing how they can add some fish on the plate. Or here change the texture and add some different texture and even some normal map to the table to make some depth effect. So, I think that's kind of nice to have this kind of tool now. What do you think about that guys? Yeah, it's really nice to see we are following this for a year, about a year I think now. And almost every week there are improvements into neural splatting and all these technologies. So, what will the future look like for this? Applications for media, for movies, for 3D immersive experiences, for digital twins. I'm really looking forward to see what the future is made of with that. Yeah, so it means that at some point they are creating the mesh. If so, well, the improvement is massive between the time we tried this for the first time and what we are capable of now. Yeah, it's very interesting to see the use of this and I guess 2024 will be another Gaussian year with new improvement there. I saw a very nice workflow, it's between Gaussian and AI rendering, just as a side note. Some artists are using Luma AI to generate a 3D object and this 3D object is then used in another AI software. So, the presentation was like a school bus. So, they generated the school bus in Luma AI, oriented it, changed the lighting configuration and then used image gen AI to generate different variations of this. I found the workflow very interesting to see that you can have now a full AI workflow and at the end you have a usable AI content. Well, graphical AI generated content. So, at some point we were scared that AI could replace artists and we can be reassured that now artists are using those tools to help them create their vision and what they imagine. So, very interesting. And the other thing is that it can open up those works to non-artist part, meaning that you can have really good ideas and not have the technical skills. And now AI can help you with those and you can work with what you are thinking about and AI can do the rest. So, very interesting to see what people will do with this and you don't have this technical part that is maybe annoying you or not making you do what you like. So, very interesting. Unwrapping UVs on a 3D mesh is most of the time awful and here it seems to really simplify this with also a scan that you do with your phone. So, if we have tools that make it easier to generate and easier to iterate and design on real objects, that can be a very helpful tool for standard users, like you said, and artists also. And that's about it for me. Okay, so just a few more news to end this podcast. So, we talked about Apple Vision Pro. I don't know if you saw that they proposed a different version of the Apple Vision Pro because it was not expensive enough. So, you can have the high-end Apple Vision Pro with one terabyte of memory. I found it very interesting because, to my knowledge, it's the only one mobile headset that offers you a one terabyte storage. So, my question is why are they doing this? Maybe they are, as they showcased in the interview, they are willing people to make so that people can store their picture or movie on the device, which is a bit weird because now we are more on the cloud side. I guess people would like to have their content shared between all their Apple ecosystems. So, why would they store it on the Apple Vision Pro hardware? Very interesting, too. Or maybe they found out that the application that you will be developing for the Apple Vision Pro are requiring a lot of space. I don't know. So, very interesting to see that they provide a huge disk space for this. One small, I would say bad buzz, but it's not because people were making fun of the Apple Vision Pro carry bag or case because it was priced at $200. But when you are purchasing a $4,000 unit, I guess you can invest in a $200 case for you to protect it. So, there's no debate here, I guess. But yeah, for some, it can be shocking because it's nearly the price of an Oculus Quest 2. So, we can understand why people are laughing at it. But I don't really see the case. So, about this Apple Vision Pro news, any thoughts on this? Yeah, about the space, I have a joke as well. Maybe it's because they want us to be able to install Xcode on it. So, that's just a private joke for Xcode developers because usually Xcode takes a lot of space. Anyway, so yeah, I totally agree with you. It's quite an interesting move. Maybe as you said, they are expecting a lot of apps to have a lot of content and to take a lot of space. And also, maybe the special videos are really huge. I don't know how big they are. So, or maybe it's easy money for them. I don't know. Yeah, but it would be interesting to see how... So, first, when we will test it, how quick the space will be taken up by the applications. And also, looking at the purchase metrics, like if the one terabyte is really selling. I don't know. Yeah, my assumption was like you found the 3D videos, the 3D application where the 3D model needs to be. High resolution to render correctly in the headset. Maybe the video also, if it's 8K videos that you look at inside the headset to have a nice rendering. Maybe you need to download them and you are not able to stream them directly. We'll see, I guess. Yeah, I forgot one news is also that they kind of lost their partnership with YouTube and Netflix. So, there won't be any YouTube app on the Apple Vision Pro for you to watch your video. It will be inside the Safari app. And Netflix, well, I don't know how you could see it. I guess they announced some partnership at the launch, but yeah, apparently it didn't work. So, we'll see how Netflix users will be able to watch a movie in the Apple Vision Pro. And last news is that we all know that Magic Leap was not in the best financial situation a few months ago. They had a lot of layoffs. They were like renting their IP to other competitors. And they just had another $500 million funding just a few weeks back. So, we'll see if they can keep up. I don't think they will provide or launch a new headset right now. They surely will continue to work on the IP and try to find some financial, well, making money at some point. Because they are now at $4.5 billion in investment and still not any margin or benefits at this point. So, I know we are all at our entrepreneur past or present. And I'm still fascinated by the way that some company can have $4.5 billion without making any money. And they are still getting more. So, it's always very shocking to see that you can have a company for about 10 years without making any money. So, it's still very surprising. Yes, the pricing of the Magic Leap 2 is kind of the same as the Apple Vision Pro. I haven't tested the Vision Pro yet, but it seems higher quality than their device. So, yeah, I wonder how they can make a move in the market. I know they are just starting selling it in Europe this year. So, yeah, they are slow to come on market to start joining or having industry using their headsets. So, yeah, it's going to be a tough market for them. Unless they lower their pricing on their headsets. Yes, they missed their window, I guess, four years ago by making that choice to go on the entertainment and not on the professional side. And now they switched. I guess it's too late. But we'll see. Yes, they need to convert all those that went to HoloLens 2 to Magic Leap. And yeah, that's tough. Okay, so I guess this is it for today. We'll see you guys next week for another episode of Lost in Immersion. See you guys. Thanks. Bye bye.
